Supporting your ex bar girl girlfriend?

I copied this from a post on the "The FARANG speks 2 much" blog. One of my favorite Blogs!

"If the girl wants some spending money, then guess what, she should get a F***ing job and work like the rest of us. It is this attitude of giving girls money for nothing that is spreading like a disease. While I do believe that we should take care of them in many instances (Lodging, Food, basic necessities etc.), that is it. The chances are that the money you have was not just handed to you, and you probably worked very hard for it. The idea that a woman should get paid for sitting on your couch watching Thai soap operas between multiple cat naps is insulting, and should not be accepted by anyone. Now of course, if there are kids involved, that can be a full-time job so that of course would be an exception, but otherwise, tell them to get off their keekiat ass and get to work, at a normal basic job. Even if its just 7K a month at 7-11, its better than nothing."

The thing is that usually when guys hook up with a “working” girl she already has a job. And one that pays very well. My girlfriend was making 100-200 000 Bath a month before she met me plus the 50 000 she was getting every month from some poor schmuck in Europe. And yes, I know this for a fact because I know what her friends rake home every month working in the luxury hotels. Not all girls make this kind of money though. Off course it’s a job that most of the girls don’t enjoy very much but selling sex is not the same for them as it is for us. Here it is not coupled with the same stigma as in the west which means that for many of these girls it’s ok to do it. They don’t consider themselves in need of rescue even though most of them would rather settle down with someone who can support them. A dream they share with most Thai girls, educated “good” girls and uneducated “bad” girls. Just look at all the soap operas they feed themselves with in this country. Most Thai girls want to be a “house” wife. It’s also not uncommon in this country that the man works and then hands over his salary check to his wife at the end of the month to let her take care of the financials, after all she does most of the shopping.

And wosch! Here comes the Farang in shining armor to rescue the girl from her awful job and come live with him. On one condition though… Give up your high income and start working for 7 000 bath a month plus the change I will throw you every month. See how you can keep sending generous amounts of money back to mommy with that.

How many Farang guys would quit their job and take one that pays maybe one tenth of what they were previously making for a girl? Some might do it but I’ll bet you that these ones already have a big chunk of cash in the bank and are no longer motivated by money. These girls don’t and are therefore highly motivated by money! If you’ve never been poor it’s hard to understand. They are also motivated by the fact that they consider it their duty to take care of their equally poor family financially, if they don’t it’s a huge loss of face and that was the reason they left for Bangkok in the first place.

They are expected to give this up for a Farang that may or may not be here in the next few months. What would you do if you were in her shoes?

If you want your girl to stop working it’s only fair to compensate here for her loss of income. Wouldn’t you expect to be compensated? If you are not willing to do that don’t complain when she goes with customers. And no, giving your love is not compensation enough, it doesn’t bring food to mommys table. I’m not saying that you should compensate her up to the amount that she was making before she met you but this is something you will have to work out with the girl. If she loves you she will accept a huge loss in income as long as she feels she can still take care of the family, if she doesn’t, tough luck, your love is not shared move on.

All relationships are give and take. How many Farang Farang relationships have ended because one party was not ready to give up the career to relocate, didn’t want to live far from the family etc. If what you get is not at par with what you give or have to give up it will not work it’s as simple as that.

Good luck to all you guys who give it a shot!

CYA!

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Narz was a dissapointment tonight...

Just got back home after a party night out in Bangkok. Unfortunately Narcissus had to close at 3.30 because the men in brown showed up. It's the first time it has happened since I started going there but I guess here in Thailand you never know. The management promised that tomorrow things will be back to normal and they will be open until 6 am again. I guess someone got greedy since things are starting to pick up there. I also got thrown of my beat a little when I ended up in the middle of a fight between two Thai guys. Apparently one of them was a big-shot so the other guy disappeared quickly. No bruses or scars to show though...

We went on to tunnel and it was rocking! A lot of people and good music. Off course when we got there I would have been happy anywhere with all the love I was feeling. ;-P

CYA! Bed time, have to recharge for tonight.

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Thai girls and Farangs?

A few weeks ago my Thai girlfriend asked me what ignorance means. This got me thinking. The Cambridge on-line dictionary gives the following definition:

“ignorance
noun [U]
lack of knowledge, understanding or information about something:
Public ignorance about the disease is still a cause for concern.
Patients, it is claimed, were kept/left in ignorance of what was wrong with them.”

Usually here in Thailand the Thai people, at least to most Farangs, are the ones considered to be ignorant. The ignorance that do exist among Thais is sad and takes some regretful expressions. The normal misconception that if foreigners could buy land in Thailand we would by it all is one expression, seriously right now you can hardly get tourists to come here let alone invest here. If Farangs could buy 1 or 2 rai of land it would hardly make a difference to anyone but the Farangs who could then feel the security of owning their own home. That all Farangs only come to this wonderful country to have sex with young girls is another common misconception. This ignorance can in most cases be excused by poor education, lack of travel experience and by spending to much time around the “wrong” kind of Farang. There are a lot of Thais that are far from ignorant but these are not the ones that are seen hanging out with Farangs in the Sukhumvit area after dark or even the ones working in the “normal” tourist industry on the service level.

What I wanted to write a little about is the ignorance that is abundant among the Farangs in Thailand. This ignorance can not be explained by a lack of education or lack of travel experience and I therefore find it more sad. The most common expression of this ignorance I come across is the tendency of Farangs to think that all Thai girls are like the ones they meet in Soi Cowboy or Nana. Or even to think that all the bar girls they meet there are alike. This way to look at the Thai girls is just as ignorant as to think that all Farangs are dirty, fat bastards that are only interested in having sex with girls hardly old enough to be out of school and that all Farangs are filthy rich. It is just far from the truth.

Most Thai girls here in Bangkok, and all over Thailand, would not be caught dead in the places frequented by these ignorant Farangs. If a Farang thinks he can treat a “normal” Thai girl the way he treats the girls in Patpong he will be in for a surprise! This seems to be very difficult for many to understand. The girls that frequent the Farang bars and nightclubs are usually not representative for the typical Thai girl.

I often see posts where bitter Farangs says that the Thai girls are all liars and cheaters. I see advice about keeping the girls on a short leach and never to trust them. Advice about how to use the financial inequalities to your advantage to be able to use the girls in ways that no Farang girl would put up with. What the fuck! What gives these guys the right to treat these girls this way?? Is it OK just because they are poor? No wonder that some of these girls take every opportunity to get back at the lying cheating Farangs.

To me this is ignorance speaking! Ignorance about the Thai culture, these girls backgrounds, the reality of a bar girl and about what kind of behavior these girls get subjected to. No wonder these guys have a lot of bad experiences with Thai girls if this is the way they treat them. It makes me sick!

If you want a good relationship with a Thai girl I would recommend that you look for her in other places than Nana, Soi Cowboy, Patong or Pattaya. It will save you a lot of headache in the future. There are a lot of nice, beautiful and well educated girls out there that don't sell sex for a living. If you do meet a girl who works in the “service” industry it is important to remember that not all people are alike. There are good girls among these girls that have been forced into this line of work by harsh realities but really want to get out. Unfortunately there are also a lot of rotten apples in the barrel. The only way to find out for sure if your girl is a good one is to take a bite. If you want her to be good to you you have to be good to her. If you want her to be loyal to you and to be able to trust her you have to first show her that she can trust you! It's not easy to understand what it's like to be poor if you have never been there. And also like apples, the longer they are around the more rotten they become.

These girls can usually not get very good jobs since they don't have a lot of education. They have to keep working or find someone who can take care of them and their families. If you expect her to give up her, for Thais, very lucrative line of work you will have to compensate her somehow, and no! Your love is not enough! The girls will usually accept a big cut into their expense account for someone they really love but it's not fair to expect a girl to go from making around 40-200 000 bath a month to living on peanuts. And if you are not willing to help out her parents just forget about her! It is expected in this country, not only an act to make the Farangs pay, and if you are not willing to go along with it it will mean a huge loss of face for your girl. Don't go there! If you were making 700-7 000 $ US per month on your own would you be willing to be with someone if that meant that you would be giving up your income and relying totally on her for support? Especially if she was only willing to part with 300 $ US a month for your expenses?? Not to mention that it would mean that your parents had to move out of their retirement home! Didn't think so but yet this is normally expected by the self proclaimed “knights in shining armor” that sweeps in and thinks they are rescuing the Thai girl from her awful life. To be honest most of these knights in armor are not so shining either. Seriously, how can a fat guy in his upper 50s think that there is true love between him and his 30 years younger beautiful girlfriend? Sometimes there can be, for sure, but how often?? If you want to win her heart you have to win her family also and show her that you are a good guy deserving of her loyalty and that you will take care of her. And in this country that means you have to cough up some money.

Many times when my friends get into trouble with bar girls (or usually freelancers) it is because they have not yet won the girls trust. Most of my friends are very generous to their girls so money is usually not a problem. By generous I don't mean that they drop thousands of $ on them but they make sure that the girl understands the limitations that exists and that the guy is helping her out to the extent that he is capable. Sometimes, at least in the beginning of a relationship, they don't disclose all their financial information because they are wary of gold diggers but they make sure that the girlfriend don't think that they are holding out on them. After all if you love someone why would you? At least thats the way she will look at it. Because the girl have seen the things you see in her line of work and because of all the stories she hear from her friends it will take a long time to win her trust. Before that you can not expect her to cold drop all her other options. Before she feels safe with you this will not happen!! For my current girlfriend it took a few months before she finally changed phone number on her own initiative. Because of circumstances known to her but that I am not willing to share here, her trust in me is a big thing! None of us knows what the future holds so I am very grateful to her for investing so fully in me. If the girl thinks that you may leave her anytime why would she close doors in her life? Would you? Give up your living and put all your trust in someone who you don't know will be here tomorrow? Didn't think so either.

Yet there are a lot of Farangs out there who expects the current girl of their choice to drop everything for him whilst they are short changing her and giving her no reassurances that they will stay together what so ever. And then they get surprised and disappointed when the girl looks after herself?? And then they start badmouthing Thai girls in general without looking at what they might have done wrong?! Off course I know that also good guys have bad experiences with girls in Thailand but this can normally be explained by the way the girl has been treated before, if not by this guy by someone else, or by the way she looks upon all Farangs in her own ignorance. If this is not ignorance I don't know what is.

If you get involved with a “working” Thai girl make sure you bring up these questions early. Ask her straight up how much money she will need to give up her work, if that's what you want, and how much you are expected to contribute to the family. Also explain to her that lying is a big no no for Farangs even if it is done to protect someones feelings. This is not so in Thailand which you should know by now. Tell her what your interest in her is, and do be honest! If you are not in it for the long run don't expect her to be loyal to you either. If you are, make sure that she knows it and that she feels that she can actually trust you to stick around. This may take some time so you have to be patient.

I would recommend everyone who is interested in having a Farang Thai relationship to read the book Thailand Fever! If you don't, som num naa!



Even if you are together with a good hearted and loyal ex “working” girl there are things that you have to consider. Usually the girl will be a lot younger than you and you will have to deal with this. Maybe she likes to go out more than you? What were you like when you were her age? How much time have you spent in bars and nightclubs in your life before you realized that you won't miss anything by staying in? In my opinion a caged girl will never be happy. If you can't keep up with your girl it's not right to make her slow down to your pace, you are only young once! Let her be young, after all it's your choice to be with a younger girl. The difference in education might or might not be a problem, it is different for everyone. It is something you should be aware of though. If I didn't have close friends to have good discussions with I would probably go crazy! If you are planing or are doing business here in Thailand and if this includes dining with Thais and their partners you might get some problems. Thais can spot a “working” girl a mile away and they don't like hanging out with them. It doesn't look good! This might spill over on you also, beware.

Thats it for now, now I have to entertain my girlfriend a little before we are going out to party in the Bangkok night. We will probably be in Slim on RCA and in Narcissus later, see you there!

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Stealing Thai girl

I ran across this post on the Internet today:

“Okay, changing the topic to something a little darker, I met a nice guy and fellow blogger the other night in the bar and as often happens I heard an interesting tale, or rather, dilemma faced by the love struck Punter. I asked him if it was okay to share with the elite tfs2m readership for their thoughts and he was game. I mean, it’s free advice so I’m sure there will be no regrets.
Here’s the deal, he’s been dating this girl for about two years, yes, an ex-bargirl. Let’s call her CNN (he told us she likes to watch news over thai soap operas which he concerned him). Our Punter friend we will call nowwhat? is a middle-aged semi-retired decent kind of guy. I actually don’t know him that well but he reads this blog so he should be okay, right?
nowwhat? was checking his bank balances recently and noticed a mysterious withdrawal of 10,000 baht. The bank confirmed that it was made with his card on the specified date. Later that day CNN came clean and admitted in tears that she needed the money desperately to pay some debt. She took his card and knew his PIN from looking over his shoulder when he withdrew money.
nowwhat? was and still is devastated and to make matters worse, he’s really in love with her. According to him she’s been an absolute dream the past two years. He’s happier than Michael Phelps watching a Cheech and Chong film and couldn’t stop singing her praises, and I could tell he genuinely does love her even though he was a few Pints in. Perplexed and desperate he spilled this out on me and two friends at the bar and we were happy to offer our slightly inebriated services. We genuinely did want to help the guy which is part of the reason I am mentioning it here.
There were mixed suggestions from the group session at the bar so I wanted to see if other’s could help nowwhat? out here.”


I will add some of the comments here also:

"The one thing nowwhat? cannot do is allow his emotions to cloud his judgment. He needs to step back from the situation to rationally look at what has happened and what the implications are. Then, he will see clearly that this relationship isn’t going to last. It is best to dump it on his terms now instead of waiting for further complications." Cruizn

"A guy who throws his dog to the pound over one pile of dookie, has no business owning a dog." MrLucky (Right said! Bangkok John.)

"Tough situation nowwhat finds himself in..it’s a slippery slope. The question is..why didnt she just tell him the truth about her debts and ask for his help? If she is willing to conceal this kind of stuff, she is willing to conceal more..and one would need to ask..”Is she really trustworthy?”

Seems to me that old habits are hard to break..and an ex-bargirls ability to trust and be honest are not exactly well documented.

I dont think a serious relationship with any bargirl (x or not) is ever possible…" Indu WangZi

"@Nowwhat- The fact that she, at one time, looked over his shoulder while he was at the ATM and remembered his pin code shows that her deeds were precalculated, and not just an instantaneous mistake based on a knee-jerk reaction, or desperate need of the money. I would set her up, and see if she takes the bait." I Phukit

"A couple of years into our relationship my (now) wife took a small gold statue of mine to the gold store and cashed it. I caught her in the act and she was pretty distraught - ended up her parents really needed some cash (legitimately) and she was really afraid that I would say no if she asked me. She is real miserly in giving cash to the family and helps me to save money in day to day transactions, so I didn’t sweat the act. Actually, what it did do was make me ask why she felt that I wouldn’t help for something which is important for her.

Now, nine years later still going strong and she actually helps save money out of the allowance I give her." Naki


My response:

Wow!

Some of you guys are really cynical. Like you all have clean consciouses, whore mongers as you are! ;-P Go home and tell your mom about your experiences and see what relationship advice she will give to any future potential girlfriend. Stay the fuck away from my son!!! For your own sake... Self righteous pricks!

She looked over his shoulder and that proves it was premeditated?? Really? I've got a good memory and I probably know the ATM codes of 4 or 5 of my friends, and my Thai girlfriends. Doesn't mean I'm planning to rip them off.

He has been with her for two years and this is her first slip up and a lot of you guys wants him to axe her without hesitation. I'm pretty sure some of you guys treat these girls anyway but nice and that if a girl cheats you back it would be well deserved. Why do you think so many bar girls hate Farangs? Because we are so honest to them and treat them so nice?? Most of these girls start in the business hoping to marry with a nice and rich Farang but after being fucked (in all ways) by a few they start fucking back. Who wouldn't? I do believe that most of them want out of the “game” and that if the right option comes along, and can win their long lost trust back, it can work. It will not be easy, like living with an addict trying to give up the drug of choice, but if you love someone and you believe they really want to change some people will give it a shot. It will not always end well but sometimes it does.

I've been a shit for a good part of my life and I know that people change, from first hand experience, which is why I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt. 10 years ago my mom was handing out the before mentioned relationship advice to anyone who wanted to listen...

Fact is anyone can slip up, and does. If this was a Farang girl what would you do? Or maybe some of you think that would never happen with an honest Farang girl?? They are not all perfect you know, Anna Nicole Smith anyone?

OK, my advice:

Ask her what the money was for and why she didn't feel comfortable asking him for it. If the answer is satisfactory, let it slide but tell her that it's unacceptable to do like this and that if it happens again she is out the door. The Thais don't see things the same way as Farangs and sometimes what is unacceptable to us is totally normal, and no big deal, to them. It's a learning experience to have a Thai girlfriend, for both parties, and you have to be able to adjust just as you expect your girlfriend to do. If not, get a fat feminist Farang (FFF) girlfriend who will make your life a lot more miserable than most Thai girls will, bar girl or not.

I have a friend who had a similar experience with a Thai girlfriend. This girl is from a nice family, her dad is a judge and she works as a lawyer, and she would not go to any of the places where the “game” is played even under gun point. One time he caught her sending money to her, not so well off, aunt from their shared bank account, without telling him about it. When confronted it turned out that the aunt was sick and had been a long time (confirmed later in person). She didn't want to tell my friend because he works so hard and she didn't want him to have to worry about this. And this is a Thai girl with a good international education who has also studied in the USA. It is just the way they think, learn and accept or don't have a Thai girlfriend.

DON'T change the code on the ATM! It will only show her that he don't trust her anymore no matter if he says he forgives her or not. This will be very bad! Better to get a second bank account and keep most of the money there if he is worried it might happen again. That's the way you should do it anyway, you should never keep more than spending money on your ATM account or you are asking to get skimmed.

Good Luck!

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Thai girls

There are a lot of self proclaimed experts on Farang Thai relationships out there. I don't claim to be one of them but I have for the last 8 months been living with a former working girl. The Thai girls are different from Farang girls in a lot of ways, both good and bad. Add to that the different customs in Thailand that we Farang are not used to or have gotten rid of a long time ago, eg dowry, and you have a potentially lethal cocktail. I will share some of my experiences with you about Thai girls.

If you have a choice don't start a relationship with a Thai bar girl!! If I wasn't already in love with my girl I would not do it again, get out before you get stuck! OK, my relationship is not bad, not bad at all, but I do consider myself to be very lucky. I see how my girlfriends friends manipulate and lie to their “boyfriends” all the time. It seems my girl is an exception to the rule, I know that I'm not alone to think lite this but she has proven her loyalty over and over again. She is also not in it for the money because she knows there is not much of that to be had. OK, OK, if you want to call me blind and naive you are welcome. There are good girls among the bar girls and freelancers (my girlfriend was a freelancer) out there, they are just hard to find. And when you do find one you have to understand that she has to keep her options open, at least until she knows that you are serious with her, the girls hear stories about how the Farang promises but never deliver also so it's not only the men who are suspicious of the girls. You have to remember it's a bout survival for these girls. They usually don't have much to fall back on and they want to find that one right guy who can take care of them so the don't have to keep working like they do. They don't have time to waist with someone who only promises but never deliver. There will be a lot of talking with other guys on the phone and a lot of sneaking and texting, at least in the beginning. If this is not for you, get out before it starts!

So whats the best way to handle these girls if you don't want a relationship? If it is someone you only want to see once or a few times tell her that you have a girlfriend or is already married. If you don't and she thinks you are a reasonably nice guy she will start to make plans to get into your wallet long time. If you do tell her that you have someone else you will still get the goods, it is business after all and here in Thailand it is not uncommon for men to have a few mistresses and to go with other girls behind their wifes back. It is in many cases acceptable. Not so if your girl comes from the more educated classes!!

Will continue this post later, time to get food.

CYA!

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Narz opens Zealot

Tomorrow, Friday Feb 20, Narz opens it's Hip Hop section, Zealot, for all those who don't like dance music. I guess they would argue that Hip Hop is dance music but each to his own, right? ;-) They have great prices and a free bar from 8-9.30. Maybe this will be the kick off the place needs to make it to the top of the Bangkok night scene.

Oh!

And the prices are pretty good for those who cares about that, Red Lable + 5 mixers 1000 bath, the same goes for Vodka. Unfortunately the don't have a good selection of Vodka yet but maybe that will change if more people ask for the nicer brands? Give me my Gray Goose!!

See you there tomorrow night, or actually I will be where the real dance music is. ;-P

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Hot or not?

I'm having a hard time understanding what makes a nightclub hot or not. In my honest opinion Narcissus is the best place in Bangkok at the moment. OK, if you don't like dance music (techno) you will not enjoy it. That I can understand and that eliminates a bunch of people as potential customers. But there is a lot of people here in the city who would love this place if they just gave it a chance. The interior would be cool in any major city in the world, the music is the best dance music in Bkk, the staff are friendly and there is no cover fee. Maybe this is the problem?

When people exit the places that close at 2 am (now most are pushing it to 3 am) there are scores of taxi drivers waiting to take you to Spicy or some of the other places, Spicy seems to be the most popular among the drivers though. This is because they get a god commission for every person they bring to these places, something to remember when you negotiate your fare. I mostly never pay to go to these places and if I do I always insist on using the meeter. If you don't charge a cover fee it's hard to pay commission for anyone bringing business.

This selling of Spicy by the drivers might be one of the reasons why Narcissus hasn't taken off yet. Don't get me wrong there is still a good turn up on the weekends but I was there yesterday night and there were not many people there. We ended up going to Scratch Dog, around 4.30, which had a bigger crowd. I don't like it as much though.

What I don't understand is why people insist on going go places like Bed Supperclub on the weekends when it's so packed that it takes half an hour to get to the bathrooms?? I like Bed, just not on the weekends. Or why people hang out in Tunnel or Spicey when they have the option of going to Narcissus which is totaly in another league. Try it and let me know what you think.

Now don't go and think I write this for the owners sake! I don't know them and I don't have any financial interests in the place but I like it and I want it to be a success so I can keep going there instead of hanging out in the dirty and shady places like Spicey, Tunnel or Boss. They are fine as long as there is no better option but now there is!

For you who don't know where it is I have a link at the bottom of the page. You go in on Soi 23 from Sukhumvit, pass Soi Cowboy, and take the first soi to the right, almost where it ends in a T-junction you'll find it on your right.

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Make money online

So I've been doing some research. There are a lot of "make money from home", "make money online" and "get rich quick" schemes out there. They seem all to be focused around creating traffic to your website where the visitor will hopefully click on your sneakily places advertisement to make money for you. One way seems to build a lot of websites focusing around different popular subjects and cross linking these. Another seems to be to sell more or less useless ebooks on ebay. Yet another seems to be to make ebooks and upload them to torrent sites. These books are off course littered with links to follow.

I am in need of money so I will jump on this wagon also :-)

How ever I will not pester this blog with a lot of useless information, I will create another one! Here it is: Money Making Blogs, Exposed As you can see I will tell you every step I take to see if this works. That way you will also be able to judge for yourself if this is something for you. If it is, please help me out with a donation or by clicking on one of my ads...

I will also add this new blog to my bloglist.

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Lucky VII, Bangkok, temporarily closed

Just got a call from one of the security guys working in Lucky VII and it appears the police were there checking the fire escapes. Not approved! Lucky VII is closed at the moment and will open again when all the pockets have been lined and the minor deficiencies have been corrected. From what I understood there weren't any major problems. He said maybe a week, maybe longer.

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